School inequities

seek2mend · Senior Member Posts: 166 Join date: 2009-02-17

This mornings Sun Chronicle published a letter from a N Attleboro woman who has witnessed inequities between the elementary schools that service their children. In a town as large as NA, obtaining a level of equity would be far more difficult than it would be in Seekonk.

If inequities still exist in Seekonk between Aitken and Martin, they are likely not as obvious as NA's. These inequities may burn just below the surface. In fact, it would probably take a bit of effort and investigation to discover if our children and the system could benefit from a restructuring.

This discussion began in '06 when North School was closed. Dr Andreozzi suggested the children would be better served by a k-2 school and a 3-5 school. All hell broke loose. The tears stopped flowing and the fears were put to rest only when Doc's proposal was withdrawn.

I was just curious if any further thought has been given to such a restructuring. Many at the old yahoo site including Tom and myself thought the move to be a step in the right direction. All children would theoretically begin in the same school and graduate from school together creating a stronger sense of community. There would be more flexibility to obtain reasonable class sizes. Supplies, books and teachers for each grade level would be located in one school. The only real negative that I can foresee, if one even exists, is cost.

Now that we have a new superintendent and a forum where the deciders (at least Dave and Mitch) are contributing, I think a dialogue could be beneficial.

**tombenoit** · Re: School inequities on Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:02 am **tombenoit**

To my recollection, it was not withdrawn but was voted down. The restructuring to a grade level school (K-2, 3-5) made sense both for financial and academic reasons. Doc Andreozzi made a logical proposal. He outlined current flaws in the process including the fact that, even with all the efforts on curriculum development, the schools had different measurements, different word lists, etc.right down the line. Grade level collaboration was difficult between different building, etc. A K-2 and 3-5 structure was more efficient in delivering education. It was also just as effective. The telling part was when someone in the audience asked to get the opinion of the the elementary principals. Each one of them indicated that, while they would prefer to be in charge of a K-6 school, there was no evidence that it was better educationally.

It would be great if the SC and the new superintendent took up the discussion now with a goal to make a decision by next spring for September 2010. That way the discussion could focus on educational value and not tied up with emotions of making a chnage at the last minute. Unfortunately Doc was forced to make his proposal the night after the over-ride vote where emotions ran high.

Wendy · Restructuring on Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:05 am Wendy

I think parents are concerned about the issues of transporting kids to non-neighborhood schools. Can you imagine a kindergarten kid from Cherry Hill Dr having to be transported to Martin School on a bus? That's a pretty long ride for a little kid. If Seekonk were shaped differently, perhaps it wouldn't be so bad.

seek2mend · Re: School inequities on Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:42 am seek2mend

Tom, I am sure you are correct. Sadly, parents were not prepared to consider the advantages and were too emotionally drained to think logically.

And yes Wendy. It may be upsetting to some to put their children on a bus for that "long" ride. But I would suggest those parents do what I did. When my kids were in school and I got fed up with one particular bus driver, I drove them myself. And if a neighbor asked, I was willing to drive their children.

As I have mentioned before, Rehoboth has one elementary school in its 46 sq miles and I have heard the children are sitting on buses for long periods of time.

One solution might be to put the lower grades at the more centralized Aitken. And maybe part of restructuring might be reallocating revenue or going back to fees and provide for more buses. I believe Seekonk goes above and beyond what the state mandates for transportation for Middle and HS students. Maybe that could be adjusted.

I just think it is time to revisit Dr Andreozzi's proposal.

**Dave** · Re: School inequities on Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:03 am **Dave**

Timing is everything someone once said and let's face it...that was bad timing.

I have the unique viewpoint of observing things from the viewpoint of an "old" Aitken parent. I remember that emotions were crazy back then. The North parents went on about losing their school for about 2 years, when in fact the Aitken kids were the most effected. North school "moved" to Aitken so all of the kids knew each other. Aitken was ripped in half so all of a sudden they were the new kids in the school.

At the end of the day everyone survived and the District emerged more efficient. I say this because in that context there was no way parents were going to support the proposal. Now that they have seen that the sky did not fall then perhaps it is something that can at least be discussed.

I would like to see some of the resources and studies from that proposal.

my 2,

d

**Dave** · Re: School inequities on Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:06 am **Dave**

Wendy wrote:

I think parents are concerned about the issues of transporting kids to non-neighborhood schools. Can you imagine a kindergarten kid from Cherry Hill Dr having to be transported to Martin School on a bus? That's a pretty long ride for a little kid. If Seekonk were shaped differently, perhaps it wouldn't be so bad.

A very good point. Would it cost more to transport under the proposal...what would the wait times be? On the flip side our district size (not shape) is a positive. We can consider such proposals where I think larger districts would have more diffculty.

**tombenoit** · Re: School inequities on Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:20 pm **tombenoit**

Wendy wrote:

I think parents are concerned about the issues of transporting kids to non-neighborhood schools. Can you imagine a kindergarten kid from Cherry Hill Dr having to be transported to Martin School on a bus? That's a pretty long ride for a little kid. If Seekonk were shaped differently, perhaps it wouldn't be so bad.

Your point assumes that the K-2 school would be Martin. It may be better at Aitken which is more centrally located. Prior to the renovation of Aitken and Martin - kindergarden WAS all at Aitken. All children at K were bused to Aitken for years.

I do not know the financial impact of transporting to grade level schools - that would be part of the discussion and analysis.

**mkreyssig** · Re: School inequities on Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:29 pm **mkreyssig**

My son is currently in Martin School. One thing that the principle, Mr. Madden mentioned (can't remember what the venue was, either teacher conference or open house) was that for some unknown reason Martin kids were struggling with fractions, while Aitkin kids were not. And that they could not figure out why just yet.

Since we all drink the same water I'll take the Occam's razor approach and say lack of a uniform curriculum. Now that the SD has a full time director of curriculum I would say the only inequities that are likely to exist in the future would be no different than those that exists between classrooms that can be related to teaching styles.

Even so...unless Martin is the better school...lol...I can't complain about the quality of education.

Wendy · Martin on Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:19 pm Wendy

Tom, fair enough. I guess I thought it was a 50-50 shot at which would be which, but I can see why the SC would decide to make the K-2 at Aitkin.

seek2mend · Re: School inequities on Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:13 pm seek2mend

Mike, I think the curriculum director is only one piece. I was told a number of years ago that with education reform, principals had much flexibility. Having said that, a bigger issue is a strong PTO.

My perception is that for as long as I can remember, Aitken has always had more parent participation. One can argue that the "region" is more affluent. Or maybe it is more picturesque or serene. It doesn't border Attleboro or Pawtucket and it does not produce the fuel for the infrastructure, as does the South end businesses.

Taking all these variables into account it makes even more sense to me to have a K-2 (Aitken) and 3-5 (Martin) 6-8 (Middle) 9-12 (high school). The center of Seekonk is the body and the north and south are the wings. Together we can fly. Metaphorically, of course Wink

seek2mend · Re: School inequities on Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:29 am seek2mend

Last nights SC meeting should leave little doubt that there are not just PERCEIVED school inequities. These inequities are very real. Dave is already aware that he will be receiving a letter that Hurley Middle School did not meet AYP. Mike and Wendy may not be aware of it, but Martin also did not meet ayp. No surprise, Aitken has "no status" which is good. The high school also met AYP.

Correct me if I am wrong, Dave or Mitch. But aside from the embarrassment, this holds little significance to Hurley because there is only one middle school. However, in the case of k-5 we now have school choice. This could be devastating if parents from Martin decide to place there children in Aitken.

Now I am left wondering what the mcas results would have been if the 2006 SC had a spine and seized the moment by going with Doc's suggestion of a k-2 and 3-5 school. I am also wondering what the fallout will be to the budget if people do make the switch. The district will have to provide transportation, classrooms and teachers.

I am guessing most will not make the switch. But it will only take a few to upset the apple cart.

Once again, a superintendent moves on and leaves us holding the bag. All that time wasted chasing illegals. What a shame. Embarassed

**Dave** · Re: School inequities on Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:50 am **Dave**

As I understood the presentation we can't do much of anything until the data is released in mid-September. While it is true that one could switch between the schools it would only be in effect until the school comes of the AYP. So it is likely that making that choice will bounce the child back and forth between the two schools...at least until the next passing grade revision.

We will know more shortly but most interesting is the way they keep raising the score every two years. I mean what is going to happen in four years when it hits a 100% standard? It could get crazy with choices. We may very well find out that when the data comes in those programs failed because of the recent raising of the passing grade.

I will also say that the concept of making schools grade specific could be a mute point for AYP because when we get to 100% I think it will hit everyone.

Wendy · AYP on Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:24 am Wendy

Yep, we got the letter yesterday about Martin not making AYP.

I'm not about to move my kids. One reason is that they are excelling and are very bright children. But the second reason is that I don't take these high-stakes tests very seriously. I know we've been through some sort of thing over the past 20-30 years where we think these tests can measure our kids' skills and knowledge, but I've never been convinced.

seek2mend · Re: School inequities on Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:33 pm seek2mend

I agree with you, Wendy. And hopefully the state will find a better way to measure a school districts performance.

Two points. You may not want to move your children since they have always been at Martin.
But there are kids in grades 3-5 who were moved out of Aitken after the failed override. They probably still have friends there. Their parents may be thrilled to bring them "home", even if it is just for a year or two.

Secondly, the test results bring credibility to my original point. There are inequities between the schools.

I wonder what would happen if we left the kids where they are and moved the Martin School administration, teachers, staff etc to Aitken and moved the Aitken School adm., teachers, staff to Martin? Would the Aitken School kids still perform better? I tend to think they would. That is why I still believe it would be more fair and more efficient to have the k-5 schools reorganized by grade level. Wouldn't liberals consider this a step in the right direction towards social justice? Wink

**tombenoit** · Re: School inequities on Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:32 am **tombenoit**

Just a couple of questions. This may seem dumb - but - what is the AYP? How does it force the district to have school building choice? If parents are allowed to move their child from one building to another (i.e. Martin to Aitken), is the district required to bus that child since it is the parent's choice? What if there is no room at the 'goto' school? Would it not just serve to increase class size and then, according to some, become counter productive?

Oh - and welcome to the new Superintendant. Wink

School inequities

School inequities :: Comments

School inequities